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Sarah Constantin's avatar

The thing POSIWID misses is that you can't understand even a corrupt or malevolent system without thinking about its nominal idealistic purpose. Fake cancer charities would make no sense unless there were someone who thought they were real cancer charities. And keeping that in mind, you can ask important (and hard) questions like "who's consciously scamming, who's in denial, and who's sincerely ill-informed?" POSIWID says we don't have to think about intent at all, only outcomes. But for some purposes (including criminal convictions! and moral blame IMO, and predicting future behavior) intent does matter, even if it's hard to deduce from the outside. If it's genuinely hard to tell who intends what, then it's also genuinely hard to tell what to do about the problem! This isn't naivete -- it's not assuming there are no bad guys -- it's acknowledging that different motives actually work differently. It's not like p-zombies or something. A Machiavellian schemer and a dupe *behave differently*, if you observe them in enough contexts.

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Noah's avatar

Maybe part of the confusion here is that most “systems” (hospitals, charities, governments) are an agglomeration of different people, often with competing interests. Averaging out their outputs creates an orientation, but each individual actor within the system is n-degrees misaligned with that orientation. So they produce a range of outcomes, some of which more closely linked to the “purpose” of the system than others.

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